GREENSBORO – Residents and community members came out in force at Wednesday evening’s informational meeting concerning the Rural Edge town hall redevelopment proposal. The April 14 meeting began with statements from the select board and Executive Director Patrick Shattuck of Rural Edge before transitioning into a question and answer session.
Residents voiced concerns over the sale process, potential wastewater issues, the current purchase and sale (P&S) agreement, and the potential occupants of the building.
Shattuck began with a statement, “One thing I think we can all agree on since we started this discussion six years ago, the need for housing has not gone away. It certainly increased. and through this process, I’ve heard from so many of you sharing your stories about your struggles with housing. Your family members, your neighbors, your friends, the people who contribute to your community, who can’t find housing. It’s not because they don’t want to be in the community, it’s because there simply isn’t housing stock . . . so, believe me, since last year what I’ve been saying is, let’s get to a vote, because it allows us to move on, and this allows you as a community to decide what you need and what the future for your community is.”
photo by Raymonda Parchment
Shattuck offered context about their other work locally. “We are here to assist. And so we’re in your community, we’re funding accessory dwelling units, we’re funding several units by private landlords, we’re partnering with Habitat [for Humanity] the stewardship and home-buyer education for the homes being built in the Bend, just last week our SASH, Support and Services at Home, signed up two new Greenboro residents for our free services to help elderly and disabled folks stay in their homes. So we’re engaged in housing in your community, and this is a vote to see whether this proposal is investigated some more. The way this is structured and your select board has been very clear, is that if this doesn’t prove feasible, it doesn’t go forward. If we can’t produce the units and we can’t find something, if there are issues, we don’t get permits, the sale doesn’t happen. And the whole time until that, it continues to function. If it doesn’t go forward, then you’ve got other ideas and the building doesn’t go away. But we’ve got a challenge. It’s hitting you in Greensboro, it’s hitting us across Vermont, it’s hitting us across the country. Housing is desperately needed, and we’re here to be part of the solution and hopefully, tonight there will be some agreement to move forward one way or another.”
Someone asked Shattuck how much time he will devote to working through the necessary issues to get construction started. “We would start right away. There would be additional funding that would need to be secured. Certainly, the funding environment has become far more challenging this year. The purchase and sale agreement says the goal would be within a year, but that’s not guaranteed. And again, if it’s clear that this isn’t going to go forward, we aren’t going to continue. We will start right away, looking at all of those things,” said Shattuck.
Another resident asked whether or not the fire department was prepared for such a large addition to the community, as well as who would be responsible for maintaining the building. Shattuck responded, “Assuming ownership transfer, we have full responsibility to maintain it, that includes the yard, plowing, all of the utilities and the exterior maintenance. Part of our development, we recapitalize reserves. When we have a project, we look at what the life cycle costs are for that building over time, and we make sure that we have money initially set aside that can’t be touched for things like roof replacement and heating system replacement, through the life cycles. We get capital gains assessments, which look at every component of the building and sort of project outward.” Shattuck says they frequently have on-site storage so there is capacity stored within the building to support the sprinkler system, but that doesn’t take up the demand.
Area EMS representative Karl Stein spoke in favor of the project, offering perspective on the town hall’s current state. Stein said he has stayed away from the discourse on Front Porch Forum, waiting instead for the informational meeting. “I want to see what it would cost to get the town hall to where it was usable from top to the bottom, renovated and fixed. I was for saving that building, and in 1987, when the school board was looking to move our students into that building. And we had an estimate back then . . . it was close to a million dollars.”
He continued, “I’ve been through the roof, I’ve been through the floor, I’ve been under the stage. I’d be glad to take anybody through any of that, you want to see the damage. In addition, the cables that are keeping the building from collapsing, the joints aren’t attached at this point, the main feed-ins aren’t attached. So there’s a lot of work, and that’s a million dollars back then, you know, now if we’re lucky, maybe four or five million dollars right now. I want to see that, I want to see that estimate, and I’m willing to work with anybody who will want to work with me, to find out what the costs are, because I’m a taxpayer, I’d have to pay the bill.”
Select board member Tim Brennan spoke to his own experience with the town hall. Brennan was on the WonderArts board in 2018, at the time they had an option with the town to develop the space, he said. They would have utilized it for WonderArts purposes and programming. According to Brennan, having hired an engineer and architect to some preliminary estimate resulted in a number upwards of $600,000. “I did look at the inflation and construction on the Bureau of Labor and statistics site. It’s been 58% since 2018. So a million bucks, and that’s really basic, that was putting in the elevator to make the third floor accessible, a very basic kind of thing.
Board member Ellen Celnik added a point about long-term costs. She said even if the board was able to fund the building through tax payer money, or a combination of bonds and grants, the overall price tag including maintenance wouldn’t be feasible. Anyway, you’ve got to get someone to schedule things, and oversee it and coordinate, and all of that stuff which from a staffing perspective is a whole other added cost, along with maintenance of the building and making sure it doesn’t go into disrepair. So, let’s think about the future versus sort of the immediate, what I would wish it to be. I would wish for a lot of things, it doesn’t mean they are practical.” she said.
Longtime area resident Sherral Lumsden said she had concerns about the scale of the project, “I feel it’s too many apartments for the size of the building. It was a part of the town, if we lose it, sell it, then it’s no longer the town’s. I’d like it to stay in the community.”
Online participant and area resident Sheila Dillon had similar concerns about the scale, “So, I’m curious about how many parking spaces are planned, because I think it’s important that we have a sense of what that will look like because it is in the center of town, but probably more importantly, there has been a lot of very thoughtful conversation over the last year, and a lot of folks have been saying, it’s awfully big for the town. Have you considered the smaller project?”
Shattuck said parking has to be consistent with what is required by zoning. When looking at space analysis, there is a capacity within what is available, currently hardscape, for about 50 spaces. “We wouldn’t need that,” he said. “What we’ve found is that many of our residents don’t have cars. Certainly not two cars per household. So the requirement is there is ample space for parking, and an area is already used for parking. The second question was scale. We worked closely with the Vermont Division for Historic Preservation, which looks at scale and compatibility . . . they were involved in the sign off and ultimate massing of this.”
Shattuck further explained the tenant selection process and elaborated on the proposed unit sizes. The proposed development would have two three-bedroom units, ten two-bedroom units and eight one-bedroom units. Each one of their properties has its own waiting list. They start pulling together a waiting list about six months before they begin occupying. That would give the town an opportunity to start gathering local names on that list, he said.
According to Shattuck, “What we find historically, is the folks who move into the developments we rebuild are local, they have long ties to the community. There’s a reason people want to live in Greensboro, because they probably have connections, they work here, they were raised here and that is why they want to live here.” he said. “We have lots of seniors who are over housed, they’re incredibly expensive to maintain. They’re looking for opportunities to downsize, so one thing we’ve looked at with our one bedroom units is making sure that they all have accessible passive travel. They’re either accessible or easily adaptable, so they can age in place. In developing that unit mix, we would look to have the desires and the needs of the town, both needs for elders and families.” said Shattuck.
A resident, identified only as Hugh, said “People here are coming up with arguments for and against . . . I think we need to focus on housing our population, this project doesn’t do that. No matter how you phrase it or justify it, or whatever taking the town hall, public property, putting it private hands for a questionable purpose is, I think is just dumb.”
Reverend Sarah Lammert responded, “I don’t think it’s fair to call it a dumb project, at all. I think that this is a project that could start to move us towards creating affordable housing and diversity in this town. There’s a lot of people here with a lot of privilege, and you are housed,” she said. “In my many years as a minister, I have noticed that when people are afraid of change, they bring up process questions and they swamp the people trying to bring change with the process questions. And that is what’s going on here. When it comes to fair housing, it’s always the wrong scope and it’s always in the wrong place. No matter where it is, somebody who lives next door doesn’t want it there. So, I’m sorry my tone is excited. I’m nervous to speak to you all, I love you all, I’m glad to be part of this community, and I’m glad we’re having these conversations together,” ended Lammert.
Despite Lammert’s plea, process questions were shared by speakers that followed, on most of which, select board members deferred to Shattack.
Area business owner Matteo Kehler also spoke in favor of the proposal, “I just want to remind us all that we are living in the middle of a crisis, that’s a capital C crisis. There’s nowhere to live in this town. If you go on Zillow, there are three properties listed, two are land. One is a seasonal summer camp for $750,000. There’s nowhere to live here. We started our company in 2020 . . . with the intention of building a liveable community and I feel like we’re failing because there’s nowhere to live. If we don’t and, you know, the comment about the median age in Greensboro, rising ten years in the last five, that’s real. We’re looking down the barrel of something that’s terrifying for me as a younger person in this community, and I’m 55.” he said.
Kehler said, while this isn’t a perfect project, nor is it in the perfect place, it provides a perfect solution “because there’s nowhere to live.” He continued, “There are so many communities around the state and the country that have sold municipal properties, schools, town halls, prime pieces of real estate in their city centers to develop housing because we need it, we need it terribly right now. The cost of construction has gotten way out of hand. The cost of real estate has outstripped the capacity of businesses like ours to pay our employees a wage that would allow them access to purchase homes.
“The opportunity to build wealth that we all enjoyed as we came up in this economy is gone.
Home ownership, the opportunity for young people to build equity is gone. Rentals are a great place to start. It’s not the only solution. It needs to be a part of a big menu of options that we as a community rise up to execute so that we can create a future for this town because there isn’t one if the median age is just going to keep rising and rising and rising.”
Area resident Ryan Hall raised questions about the character of the potential occupants, “I have a young family. I’ve worked hard since I graduated, and I’ve had no problem moving into this community and finding a piece of property to fix up and live here. When we talk about the property values being so high in our community, that’s a good thing. Now this is a tough statement but if you look at all the other Rural Edge developments around the state, the quality of the people living in them is fairly low. Do we want to bring that to our community?”
Online participant Vince Cubbage raised similar questions about the tenant selection process and potential occupants. Cubbage questioned the special conditions in the P&S agreement such as the homeless tenant provision and rent limits. “It would be great to understand how your tenant selection plan is in compliance with the HOME program, and how that gels with the comment that Greensboro’s process will allow tenants we want to live there, when your state funding sources have their own tenant selection.” The HOME Investment Partnerships Program is a federal program that provides funding to state and local governments to create affordable housing for low-income households. It’s the largest federal block grant specifically for this purpose.
Shattuck responded first, “So we look at income, assets, criminal, credit, landlord references. To get on the waiting list, you have to submit a whole application beforehand, and then when a unit becomes available an official screening takes place. So the restrictions call for an income, the units are restricted to households between fifty and 80% of the area median income. The governor’s mandate required us to include three of those households. That is the governor’s mandate for any publicly funded housing, fifteen percent be set aside so that’s those three units.”
He elaborated further,“It’s homeless or at the risk of homelessness. So that means folks who are rent burdened, paying an inordinate amount of their income towards rent. We’ve heard so many people are couch surfing, or sleeping in their cars or in substandard housing. There’s every best effort for a certain number of folks, it’s a small number of below 30% of area median income. That is every best effort. So, you may have elderly folks with a Section 8 voucher, who may qualify. The [monthly] rents range from $833 to $1,387, and that was based on the operating pro formula.
Celnik then spoke out, “I’ve done this for 25 years in New York, and I understand how complicated it is. But if rent starts at $1,833, somebody has to earn around $33,500 to be eligible. So for somebody to be at 30% of median income, median income in Orleans county is around $66,000, thirty percent is $19,800 a year. They wouldn’t be eligible unless they had a section eight voucher. Now, the Section 8 vouchers waiting list is closed. The waiting list takes about five years, or up to five years for people. Quite frankly, I’m actually embarrassed that this town would even bring that up. Because, as an inclusive community, we have had families burned out of their homes in the bend. Should those people not be considered for housing? It really embarrasses me. I think we’re better than that.”
Greensboro resident and social worker Dahria Messina agreed, first providing some facts, before lambasting the previous speakers. “I am a resident of Greensboro and I am also a social worker at one of our local homeless shelters. So I’d like to just offer a little bit of perspective here. I am deeply in favor of this project. Something around 18% of Greensboro’s year-round housing are rentals. 22% is the nationwide average, which is already low for the nation. 81% of Greensboro’s housing stock is seasonal. 81%. That is a wildly high number. Especially for a town that is seeking to grow and is seeking to survive transitions into new generations.
“We have this space that is underused and needs a new purpose. We have a town that wants families and younger folks to settle here.
“Change is going to happen, that is the reality. Change is going to happen one way or another, and we have an opportunity here to steer that chance.”
In closing, Messina remarked, “This project, it has been clearly stated, will not go forward if it is not viable, if it is not feasible. Other solutions will have to be sought, but right now, we have spent an awful lot of time road blocking the people that are trying to tell us if this project is feasible. I work with a community of folks who have been consistently dehumanized and ignored by our wider community. Everyone deserves a warm place to sleep. So I find it pretty disturbing when I hear people questioning what type of people this will bring to our town. That’s a really upsetting perspective to come with, especially in Vermont.
“These are our community members, these are our Vermonters, just as much as we are. If we can offer more homes, then we need to do so.”
The select board ended the meeting promptly at 8:30 p.m. as scheduled, after everyone who had wanted to speak had their chance and some had the opportunity to speak a second time.
The vote will be held on Tuesday, April 29, at Greensboro Town Hall, 82 Craftsbury Road from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.
Raymonda Parchment is a Hardwick Gazette reporter. She recently graduated from Vermont State University - Castleton with a Bachelor’s Degree in English. She is a strong supporter of freedom of speech, and the right to publish information, opinions, and ideas without censorship or restraint. She is a lifelong lover of the written word, and is excited to join the team as a staff member.
Ryan Hall’s statement is not “tough” – it’s incredibly bigoted